Dressing up and Ukoku's brain

[louiselux]

puddingcat came to Reading yesterday to get fitted for her coat of many buttons, so in the afternoon I met up with her and her dressmaker friend Claire and landlady Laura. We hit up the John Lewis haberdashery and Fabricland and a couple of shoe shops and now I feel so enthused about dresses and fabric and shoes. I can't wait to see puddingcat's coat - she showed me the pattern and it's a sort of pirate frock coat with panels and huge cuffs.

I'm thinking of commissioning a dress from Claire too. I just have to decide on what I want: either something 60s style in a simple A-line/shift dress style, or a full skirted 50s style dress.

Also, when we were randomly chatting about stuff, puddingcat made a really interesting point about Nii - he's a sanzo monk, so can he really be so evil? Is he really going to suck Sanzo into his black hole of doom and destroy him, or is he just teaching Sanzo something, but doing it in a particularly nasty way? Maybe he is working to the greater good. Innnnnteresting.

puddingcat compared him to Kanzeon Bosatsu, who isn't exactly pleasant in the way she goes about things. She didn't have to let Goku be imprisoned in a cave for 500 years after all.

I like this idea, because it balances Ukoku's character somewhat. Also, I don't know if Koumyou was actually such a nice person. Discuss.

Comments

[scribblemoose]

Oooh, interesting!

She didn't have to let Goku be imprisoned in a cave for 500 years after all.

Well... probably she did, because he did something awful in heaven, right? Plus, time doesn't mean much to bodhivista I don't suppose. I know Goku's cute and cuddly, but it was the sharp and pointy Saiten Taisei she imprisoned, I think? Presumably for long enough for Konzen/Sanzo to become enlightened enough to release him.

As for Nii - nope, I'm not convinced, he seems pretty evil to me. I agree with avierra; Sanzos don't have to be good, and Nii obtained his Sanzohood through force. He doesn't have the chakra, either.

Plus, this is Buddhism, rather than Christianity, so the good/evil thing doesn't apply in quite the same way.

However, I'm not convinced that Nii is the evil protagonist, exactly - I think he's as much a pawn of the Merciful (!) Goddess as anyone. I have this growing feeling that she's out to teach Konzen/Sanzo a lesson of some kind, and that Nii, Koumyou and all the others are part of her game, wittingly or otherwise.

I did really like Nii's point in the last chapter that Koumyou allowed himself to be killed. I'd never really thought of it before, but of course he was far too powerful to allow himself to be killed by Nii some random youkai. I think he knew what Sanzo's fate was to be and played his part on purpose. [Edit: there's also the possibility that Koumyou (and/or Kanzeon Bosatsu) knew Sanzo would need to be grief-driven and desperate to defeat the Evil (be it Ukoku or something else) and that Koumyou couldn't do it himself.]

And, probably because he's so scarily clever, I'm pretty sure Ukoku has worked all this out. I think he's playing Bosatsu's game, but not out of any philanthropy. He just realises it's pointless to resist and fancies having a bit of fun along the way.

I find myself wondering more and more if there's a relationship between Nii/Ukoku and Nataku. But that might just be my desire to tie up loose ends ;)

Overall, I think it's Kanzeon Bosatsu's game from start to finish, and she'll intervene if Ukoku gets carried away. Meanwhile I suspect she thinks what he's doing to Sanzo is just character-building. ^_^;

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

One of my friends held the theory that Nii was Litouten's reincarnation. I never quite agreed, but it's something to think about.

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yeah, I could never quite see that either. LiTouten was never the bored intellectual type, although he was a tiny bit overinvested in getting power.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Of course, he might still be up in Heaven causing trouble. (Though I wonder, with recent developments in mind, if Gojyun's 'sin' ends up finishing Li Touten.)

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

I did wonder that too, especially as we see Nataku sitting motionless/unconscious at one point in the main Saiyuki story. Is it vol 9? If Nataku is no longer acting as the heretical killing prince or whatever, then Li Touten won't have the leverage to stay in power.

Also, maybe Goujun found a way to get rid of him.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I do wonder who the killing prince is now. Maybe they decided they'd do without one altogether, as they seem to be such trouble.

I wouldn't put it past him. Smart dragon, that Goujun.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Which then leads up to the question of if Li Touten's around somewhere else, and what he's doing.

[puddingcat.livejournal.com]

However, I'm not convinced that Nii is the evil protagonist, exactly - I think he's as much a pawn of the Merciful (!) Goddess as anyone. I have this growing feeling that she's out to teach Konzen/Sanzo a lesson of some kind, and that Nii, Koumyou and all the others are part of her game, wittingly or otherwise.

Yes. This. Because when it's your nephew's soul that you're playing with, you're going to take a close interest.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Which begs the question: How nonattached is the Merciful Goddess hirself?

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm. I think she's nonattached insofaras she'd let Sanzo die; she just takes more notice of what's going on with his life than with others'. Some of that's probably because he's a Sanzo priest, but I doubt she'd have taken such a personal interest in him (or in Gojyo...) if she hadn't been related.

[puddingcat.livejournal.com]

Sorry - that was me :)

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your interesting points!

Yeah, good and evil is far less defined in Buddhism, just like in life, I suppose? It's one of the things I love about Saiyuki, that Minekura plays with notions of good and evil so much, and no one is one thing or another. Well, apart from the crazy youkai, but I can forgive that because they're under a spell!

I admit I would love for Nii to not be just an evil thing, but to have some positive aspect to his existence. I'd be disappointed if that wasn't the case - maybe he will do some good despite himself.

Yes, Koumyou could've chosen not to die then, I am sure of it. Maybe he wanted Sanzo to have a long time to prepare for his eventual fight with Ukoku?

I think you're right about it being Kanzeon's game though. I also admit I'd love to see her come down and kick Ukoku's arse.