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telophase said recently about how Minekura mirrors panels in Saiyuki reminded me to post this. It's a comparison of the two 'falling off a cliff' scenes.
The first one happens in vol 7 where Sanzo is pushed off a cliff by a youkai, the other happens in vol 8 and is a flashback to Gojyo's childhood memory of falling off a cliff and being saved by his brother Jien.
So, of the two occurrences, although we see Gojyo's falling-off-a-cliff experience later on, Gojyo's experience is actually the first one. It's much shorter than the scene in vol 7, where he saves Sanzo. I noticed that almost every panel in the scene in vol 8 has a counterpart in the longer scene in vol 7, and the comparison between the two, in terms of positioning of protagonists, what they are saying to each other and the mood at some points very comical, mostly because Jien is very caring towards Gojyo and Sanzo is vehemently not. There are other things going on too though, like Gojyo's instinctive need to 'pick things up' even at a price to himself.
One of the first panels: Gojyo falling off a cliff in vol 8, caught in the nick of time by Jien.
Sanzo falling off a cliff in vol 7, caught in the nick of time by Gojyo.
The next panel in vol 8, with Jien offering supportive advice...
... and the one that I think corresponds from vol 7, with Sanzo offering slightly different advice.
Over the page, they huff and puff and recover...
... and so do Gojyo and Sanzo, in much the same configuration, although the panels are arranged on the page differently. Sanzo sitting in exactly the same postion as Jien in the previous picture, with Gojyo puffed out on his right.
The next panel from vol 8.
In the panel below from vol 7, Sanzo and Gojyo are again in pretty much the same configuration, and the angle the scene is viewed from is the same too. Jien mentions his arm and in vol 8 just after this, there's a shot of Gojyo's arm complete with bruises and scrapes.
The next panel from vol 8, each full face and looking at each other.
The panel I think corresponds from vol 8. Gojyo is in pretty much exactly the same pose as Jien, and while his gaze is saying something different, there's also the same affection there that Jien has. Note that Sanzo isn't meeting Gojyo's eyes fully in this danger period where Gojyo might be beginning to think Sanzo has a heart. Cue fairly intense flirting from Gojyo after this.
The final panel on that page, and it marks the end of the scene--after this their mother appears and their closeness is lost, literally, as their mother comes between them. Jien is affectionate and teasing- touching the top of his head is a very intimate gesture and this is also something that Gojyo does to Goku often.
This panel is slightly out of order as it comes before the full face panel above, but the similarities made me laugh. Sanzo's affection takes a different form. Kicking the top of someone's head- does that count as intimate, or just plain bitchy?
There are things that can be drawn from this, although a lot of points have been made before and far better more eloquently than I can make them. In a previous post, I looked at specific scenes from vol 7 and Gojyo and Sanzo's relationship, where Sanzo hits Gojyo and Gojyo reverts back to a childlike pose. Sanzo takes on the role of Gojyo's mother. In the cliff scene Sanzo is cast as brother. Does he play the father anywhere? I can't think of an instance but then we never get to see Gojyo's father. In fact we there's a lack of parents altogether-- dead, missing, imprisoned or non-corporeal-- but ever present?-- in Goku's case. We also only get to see two other blood relatives apart from Jien, both female: Hakkai's sister, Gojyo's mother, and with both of them there is incest.
I think the mirroring in these two scenes is there to underline the point Minekura makes just a little bit further on in vol 8, when Gojyo kills his (fake) mother: that Gojyo has a new family, and that Sanzo, Hakkai and Goku together form some ungodly (haha) combination of mother, father and brother to Gojyo, at different times and in different ways.
Someone else made this point, but unfortunately I can't remember who. Throughout vol 7, the way Sanzo talks to Gojyo has a big brotherly feel to it-- 'give me my gun back before your stupidity gets all over it,' is absolutely the type of obnoxious thing you might say to an annoying sibling, and Sanzo says things like that to Gojyo throughout vol 7. This bickering, at times spiteful and nasty (just like siblings get) is undermined by Gojyo's instant and total commitment to rescuing Sanzo, and Sanzo's little flare of gratitude.
Any other thoughts would be very welcome.
ps, I hope the image formatting works for everyone. It seemed to go a bit squiffy at times on my pc, but I think I've fixed it.
telophase said recently about how Minekura mirrors panels in Saiyuki reminded me to post this. It's a comparison of the two 'falling off a cliff' scenes. The first one happens in vol 7 where Sanzo is pushed off a cliff by a youkai, the other happens in vol 8 and is a flashback to Gojyo's childhood memory of falling off a cliff and being saved by his brother Jien.
So, of the two occurrences, although we see Gojyo's falling-off-a-cliff experience later on, Gojyo's experience is actually the first one. It's much shorter than the scene in vol 7, where he saves Sanzo. I noticed that almost every panel in the scene in vol 8 has a counterpart in the longer scene in vol 7, and the comparison between the two, in terms of positioning of protagonists, what they are saying to each other and the mood at some points very comical, mostly because Jien is very caring towards Gojyo and Sanzo is vehemently not. There are other things going on too though, like Gojyo's instinctive need to 'pick things up' even at a price to himself.
One of the first panels: Gojyo falling off a cliff in vol 8, caught in the nick of time by Jien.
Sanzo falling off a cliff in vol 7, caught in the nick of time by Gojyo.
The next panel in vol 8, with Jien offering supportive advice...
... and the one that I think corresponds from vol 7, with Sanzo offering slightly different advice.
Over the page, they huff and puff and recover...
... and so do Gojyo and Sanzo, in much the same configuration, although the panels are arranged on the page differently. Sanzo sitting in exactly the same postion as Jien in the previous picture, with Gojyo puffed out on his right.
The next panel from vol 8. In the panel below from vol 7, Sanzo and Gojyo are again in pretty much the same configuration, and the angle the scene is viewed from is the same too. Jien mentions his arm and in vol 8 just after this, there's a shot of Gojyo's arm complete with bruises and scrapes.
The next panel from vol 8, each full face and looking at each other.
The panel I think corresponds from vol 8. Gojyo is in pretty much exactly the same pose as Jien, and while his gaze is saying something different, there's also the same affection there that Jien has. Note that Sanzo isn't meeting Gojyo's eyes fully in this danger period where Gojyo might be beginning to think Sanzo has a heart. Cue fairly intense flirting from Gojyo after this.
The final panel on that page, and it marks the end of the scene--after this their mother appears and their closeness is lost, literally, as their mother comes between them. Jien is affectionate and teasing- touching the top of his head is a very intimate gesture and this is also something that Gojyo does to Goku often.
This panel is slightly out of order as it comes before the full face panel above, but the similarities made me laugh. Sanzo's affection takes a different form. Kicking the top of someone's head- does that count as intimate, or just plain bitchy?
There are things that can be drawn from this, although a lot of points have been made before and far better more eloquently than I can make them. In a previous post, I looked at specific scenes from vol 7 and Gojyo and Sanzo's relationship, where Sanzo hits Gojyo and Gojyo reverts back to a childlike pose. Sanzo takes on the role of Gojyo's mother. In the cliff scene Sanzo is cast as brother. Does he play the father anywhere? I can't think of an instance but then we never get to see Gojyo's father. In fact we there's a lack of parents altogether-- dead, missing, imprisoned or non-corporeal-- but ever present?-- in Goku's case. We also only get to see two other blood relatives apart from Jien, both female: Hakkai's sister, Gojyo's mother, and with both of them there is incest.
I think the mirroring in these two scenes is there to underline the point Minekura makes just a little bit further on in vol 8, when Gojyo kills his (fake) mother: that Gojyo has a new family, and that Sanzo, Hakkai and Goku together form some ungodly (haha) combination of mother, father and brother to Gojyo, at different times and in different ways.
Someone else made this point, but unfortunately I can't remember who. Throughout vol 7, the way Sanzo talks to Gojyo has a big brotherly feel to it-- 'give me my gun back before your stupidity gets all over it,' is absolutely the type of obnoxious thing you might say to an annoying sibling, and Sanzo says things like that to Gojyo throughout vol 7. This bickering, at times spiteful and nasty (just like siblings get) is undermined by Gojyo's instant and total commitment to rescuing Sanzo, and Sanzo's little flare of gratitude.
Any other thoughts would be very welcome.
ps, I hope the image formatting works for everyone. It seemed to go a bit squiffy at times on my pc, but I think I've fixed it.