WA rec and Ukoku

[louiselux]

Wild Adapter rec: this is a brilliant Komiya story: Kohai by Mikona. I'm very fond of Komiya and I wish there were more Komiya/Kubota stories, or at least in places where I can find them. I think in this fic I like the feeling of tension most of all and Komiya's frustration, because the thing about Komiya is that he's teetering on the edge of knowing what it is he wants but is just not quite brave enough to admit it.

Because of something on someone's journal this week, I went back to read Ukoku's bit of the Burial  arc and sort of fell in love with him, a bit. A lot. Or more accurately with him and Koumyou.  

I thought that Ni looked sad and a bit desolate in that image at the end of the epilogue, alone with his rabbit.  But I wonder if he had a hand in Koumyou's death. I suppose I'm thinking that Koumyou knew that Ukoku would stop at nothing to win whatever game it was they were playing, even killing Koumyou despite the fact that they appear to be friends.    I don't know-- it's a sad story and I prefer to think that Ukoku misses Koumyou and didn't kill him, but then he spent years torturing Kami-sama with apparently no remorse, so perhaps he'd find it easy.

And later on I noticed a startling similarity between this picture of youkai Hakkai and this one of Ukoku.

Maybe Minekura likes to draw that pose-- who knows, but I like putting them side by side. Considering they're in the same story arc, it'd be surprising if it wasn't deliberate. I mean, they're very similar.



Ukoku about to kill his master at the temple.



Youkai Hakkai about to kill Gojyo's kidnappers

Comments

[scribblemoose]

Very interesting!

*tickles hakkai's cute youkai!ears*

*gets rent in twain*

oops.

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

*snerk* But you know Hakkai will put his limiters back on, apologise and glue you back together again - he's handy like that.

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

Rather than retyping what I think, I'm going to repost a bit of a conversation about this that yukie1013 and I had in a flocked post on megmurry's journal. ^____^

WL: "instead of Nii and Hakkai I'm thinking of Nii and Sanzo as two halves of the same path

Very much so. Either one could have gone the other way, I think, depending on the environment--and Koumyou was really the only one to understand either. It's a question of rationalization vs. rationality. Sanzo and Nii play the extremes, but the spectrum is U-shaped.

While Kami-sama could be seen as Nii's direct answer to Koumyou's Sanzo, I think that you have a point in using Nii himself. In some ways, Ukoku was more whole than Nii is, and could be interpreted as a kind of parent or pre-generational figure. I think Koumyou's death stripped him of what little 'humanity' he had left (though I also suspect he orchestrated that murder, seeing as understanding someone implies having a kind of power over the one being understood).

I interpret the entire "journey west" scenario as the playing out of an elaborate chess game between Koumyou and Ukoku--one in which Nii (and the Kougaiji-tachi) and the Sanzo-ikkou muddle all the clear-cut divisions and break all the rules.

In something of the same dialectical vein, have you read Snowyheart's color wheel theory?"

Yukie: "This makes me wonder if the death itself was orchestrated. ...Well, I ahve two theories. One is that Ukoku 'rationally' (I use this word in THE loosest sense!) knew Koumyou had to die for the greater wossit, but didn't realise he would be so affected by Koumyou's death. This is turn makes me wonder HOW DAFT THE GUY CAN BE ABOUT THE HUMAN HEART. Despite all his calculating rationality, he's still a human being. When he gets angry, he goes POW, and then seems almost sheepish afterward. That intrigues me a lot: 'oh wait. uh. that was illogical, sorry'. And he does seem to get some childish glee out of teasing Kou. Or maybe it's scientific eee: 'I ring bell he go POING - check it, Pavlov lives! :D'

The second theory is that Henchmen Are Stupid. Ukoku said 'go get the sutras', the henchmen said 'you got it boss', and they came back and bragged about having fragged Koumyou (they really did, eugh) and possibly got annihilated for that transgression. Scarily, I can see this. Ukoku/Nii just smiling, running a hand over the sutra, saying, "Nice work," amiably as you please, and then snapping the head thug's neck almost clinically.

...Now I have even MORE of a crush on Nii.

Interestingly, in Minekura's colour art, Nii's eyes are a cool grey, or slate-blue.

...And lo, a crow fight on my lawn. WTF."

WL: "I agree--he just buries everything in the Ultimate Mantra of rational self-interest and acts as though logic is a religion in and of itself. And yet, Koumyou dies, and Ukoku becomes even less accessible/"sane". (I feel like he was picked on or lonely as a child, and this is a defense mechanism gone awry, awry.)

It always makes me think of young Gonou. I think the parallels are conscious on Minekura's part, and there's going to be some major plot between those two at some point. Hakkai will know he could have easily gone that way--become another Nii, if it hadn't been for Kanan's intervention and her distillation of his emotion/principles."

Yukie: "(I feel like he was picked on or lonely as a child, and this is a defense mechanism gone awry, awry.)

I concur. Observe Ken'yuu outside the temple in Burial. Very closed body language - he's all bunchy.

Nii is the ultimate over-the-top Revenge of the Nerd.

And I do think he had it bad for Koumyou. I mean, Koumyou is the only one who gets a REAL smile out oft he guy, who gets him to utterly drop his guard, who startles him. When you're a guy who prides himself on being able to 'read' anyone and be completely 'unreadable' himself...Koumyou turns Ukoku's world upsde-down and shakes it a lot.

And I do concur about he and Hakkai. Just like there are mass parallels between Sanzo and Kamisama and Sanzo and Hazel. Foils r fun XD I don't grok the Split Soul Hypothesis (though I don't disrespect people who do and do see where they're coming from), but for sure, there are major similarities."

[yukie1013.livejournal.com]

I think possibly now the big difference between Hakkai and Nii is HOPE and ADORATION, cheesy as it sounds.

Hakkai always has had it. (However small an amount.)

Nii is just apathetic.

And what they fight for is different too.

Hakkai always fights for what he loves. The times when he is the most terrifying, he's a mother-bear-protecting-cubs.

Nii fights for...well, himself. And that's all he has. I guess he thinsk it's all he ever had.

Hakkai's a much stronger character at the core I think.

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

mother-bear-protecting-cubs

I agree...annnnd, that's especially funny, seeing as there's that stupid Gunlock ep when he heals the bear cub. Oh, animators, how you toy with us.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

::nods:: Yeah, me too.

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

I think you're right. The similarities and differences between the two are fascinating, I think.

Both Ukoku and Gonou are able to unleash 'monstrous power' and when they do, they both undergo fundamental changes: Gonou dies (or as good as) and Ukoku becomes a sanzo.

Nii has changed such a lot-- back when he was Kenyuu he was still able to convincingly play a compassionate, caring person and to have friends, but now, as Nii, that act is a parody. Hakkai's compassion and caring, which he takes great pains over, are very real. Even though they cover up something much darker they are an important part of how he views himself.

[yukie1013.livejournal.com]

ee. My hypothesis makes sense!

Yeah. Ken'yuu to his classmates and Ken'yuu as he really is are different. He's...yeah. Very introverted, very untrusting (he sits knees to chest when he doesn't have to lotus...and even when he's Nii-ing, he'll have one arm or something protecting himself at crucial times - when Kou comes back with his control over himself regained for example), and he plays the class clown, but I suspect he got wedgie'd or whatever it is Sanzo Seedlings do when they gang up on the quippy geek.

Being a bright kid is...it sure makes the parents proud but it's a social death sentence. I think Ken'yuu is trying to re-make himself at the temple...and over and over again. He drops names, tries to abandon who he was, but dammit, he is still a somewhat surly introverted socially-odd teenage punk inside and I think it pisses him off.

Wherever you go, Nii, there you are.

*bunny smacked*

Yeah. Hakkai's smile is a mask too but it's a different kind. He smiles all the time because he doesn't want to burden other with his troubles. And his 'monster' side is...damned if he doesn't remind me of a bigass dobermann ripping into someone who messed with HIS PEOPLE. Or perhaps a wolf? He says to Goku to stand back, but it's less that he won't know allies than he doesn't want Goku to see him going all Hunter. The 'not knowing friend from foe' thing is disproven in Hakkai and Gojyo's burial arc - Gojyo's just lying there, an easy target, but he's untouched. Gojyo is part of the Pack. He's the one being defended.

Both Hakkai and Nii go bitey rar but...yeah. Hakkai has that fundamental LOVE thing. Poeple who accept him for who he is. They know all his dark spots, but hey - Hakkai's darkness makes his glowy parts burn brighter.

Nii, though, needs a lighter. Poor punk.

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Thanks - that's very interesting!

Nii is the ultimate over-the-top Revenge of the Nerd.

It's certainly something like that. I do get the strong impression that Koumyou is the only person Kenyuu has met who he finds remotely interesting and yeah, I can see him having a massive crush on his teacher.

I interpret the entire "journey west" scenario as the playing out of an elaborate chess game between Koumyou and Ukoku-

Yes, but they both have different stakes: Koumyou's might be playing for Ukoku's redemption, while Ukoku, who is blind about everything concerning the human heart and his own emotions, is convinced he's just playing for himself.

Well, maybe. I'm just kicking ideas around:D

[yukie1013.livejournal.com]

I don't know-- it's a sad story and I prefer to think that Ukoku misses Koumyou and didn't kill him, but then he spent years torturing Kami-sama with apparently no remorse, so perhaps he'd find it easy.

I don't know about torture.

I think Nii took on Kami knowing Kami would grow up looking VERY MUCH like Ukoku. And to make Koumyou jealous. I mean, Ukoku heckles Kouryuu for no reason ("I thought you were a little girl :D")...he's JEALOUS of the kid. So Kami was his way of (a) trying to make Koumyou jealous and (b) trying to prove his way is better: 'my student is more powerful, see?'

That said, Ukoku was probably kind enough to Kami, but the kid KNEW he was a replacement and a 'plaything' or pawn, so...yeah, that'll do a number on an already-damaged mind. (The implication in the manga is that Kami was a child prostitute when Ukoku found him. He asks Ukoku to buy him. Erk.)

...As I now have a thought that Kami got raised the way Ukoku himself may have. He may have gotten every toy he wanted, and his parents weren't CRUEL, but they were mostly absent. Hence the killer overachieving. A want of attention?

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Isn't Kami all beat up n' stuff though? Am I misremembering that?

[yukie1013.livejournal.com]

*busts out TRUSTY MANGA*

Kami's got that scar over his eye, yes...when he first glomps onto Ukoku, he has it. When he meets Kouryuu, it's bandaged. (Maybe there was damage to his eye, and Ukoku treated it?)

Sanzo and Co. do a number on him for sure, but that's how they deal with every obstacle. XD;

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Ah. Somehow I thought that was Ukoku's doing rather than part of the package (so to speak). I hate having to slog through scanlations...come out in English quicker, dammit!

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Perhaps torture was the wrong word to use-- I didn't mean physical abuse really, but mental. I totally agree that Ukoku would be jealous of Kouryuu and that Kami was just a weapon or a chess piece in the game that he's playing with Koumyou. Of course, I don't know if Koumyou thought it was a game they were playing as such, but more of an attempt on Koumyou's part to save Ukoku from himself.

I can't imagine Ukoku physically abusing kamai-sama, but he certainly appears to torment him emotionally, is how I see it, and with little or no remorse. Although Kami still loves him, even when he's dying.

[yukie1013.livejournal.com]

*nod* Oh, definitely. That was where I wanted to smack Nii around.

Interesting that Nii doesn't let Kami see him in those scenes (and as a result we can't either). He's backlit - playing 'god', but also rendering his facial expressions unreadable.

I suspect there's slight remorse he's grappling with, but he's very handily quashing it. He only smiles (wry amusement?) when Kami asks, "Hey, sensei, 's there a god, do you think...?" Nii smiles, and replies, roughly, "...Nah."

Sighs Kami, "Yokatta..." Thank goodness. Or, I'm glad.

He says what Kami needs to hear here.

Nii's not bereft of kindness, but he's really CRAPPY at expressing it. ...Well, maybe not when there are no witnesses. *cough*

I feel the urge to hug Kami.

But yeah. Emotional torture for sure. @_o