louiselux | Saiyuki thought

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saiyuki

Saiyuki thought

I should be working (just because I've had 3 weeks to do it, doesn't mean I can't finish it off on Sunday night!), but a fragment of fannish thought interrupted me, as they so often do.

Someone on my flist recently (very recently I think, and I'm sorry I can't remember who it was) mentioned that the whole Gojyo being kidnapped by youkai plot is an exact parallel to what happened with Kanan, and here Hakkai is, in the same situation again, the poor sap.

I'd never thought of that parallel consciously before, or had forgotten about it if I had. The cosmic irony of it all and Hakkai's line, 'It's harder to not kill,' actually struck me as being very funny, in that very dark way that Minekura does so well.

I wonder how Hakkai feels afterwards, when he puts his limiters back on? There's a case for saying that the killing is a release for him. I don't think I mean to say that he enjoys it, although... maybe he does.

I love that 'you're really not cut out to be a villain' line to Gojyo at the end. I like to think Gojyo stops pretending to be Mr Tough Guy after that, at least to Hakkai.

eta: a translation of the autumn 05 Ward by

flemmings that's making me teary-eyed.

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I love the Burial arc so much and this is an example of why. Poor Hakkai - just when he's grappling with his youkai-identity, being usurped by Banri and rejected by Gojyo, he has to save Gojyo from this painfully reminiscent situation and use his youkai form to do it.

I mean, honestly, Gojyo. You'd better appreciate him after all that. *wags finger*

I'd like to think Minekura feels remorse for the darkness she lays on her poor boys, but something tells me she just cackles to herself. ^_~

Hakkai gets a real whammy, doesn't he? I'm sure the fact that he got rained on on the way there didn't help either. *g*

I think Gojyo must be more than a bit freaked out at seeing Hakkai in action, even though he knew in theory what he'd done in the past, but he must feel sort of special too, especially in hindsight, because how often does Hakkai take his limiters off? Almost never.

I bet Minekura cackles like a witch when she's plotting.

It's especially interesting, though, for the double layers of echo -- because that moment where Gojyo's down on one knee, fist on the floor, is the exact same pose that Kenren takes when he's trying to argue that his troops should go instead of Nataku's. Which ends up with him thrown in the dungeon of course, and it's not Tenpou who rescues him, but Goujun.

Oh, I must go back and look! I'd never noticed that before.

Never mind about the brain fuzziness.. mine's practically furry at this point

I just read that bit, and the thing that struck me most was the two broken umbrellas on Hakkai's list of damages afterwards. The umbrellas were fine in the scene before he changed. Which means youkai!Hakkai was fighting with umbrella-fu, and that just cracks me up completely. *g*

Also, to be a little less shallow, there's this running theme of "you can't change who/what you are" all through it; almost everyone says it at one point or another. But what the story seems to be about is the ways all of them have changed. Which is, you know, kinda cool.

In conclusion, youkai!Hakkai is hot like fire, and if I were Gojyo I would be swooning all over the place, so it's a good thing Gojyo is cooler than I am. Yep.

You can't change who you are, but you can change your behavior about it, the way you treat others, the way you treat yourself.

I think Hakkai's still having a little trouble with that last part. Possibly they all are.

And after having thought about it for a while, that's pretty much the theme of the whole series, isn't it? Strangely hopeful for such dark subject matter, which is maybe why it doesn't seem dark at all most of the time.

Absolutely. Because even though they're all having this terrible time on the road, actually in a peculiar way its good for them, almost like they could never actually live happily any other way.

Mmm, exactly.

Well, Gojyo was lying down when Hakkai took his limiters off, saving him the indignity of having to faint. Yes, the umbrellas! I read somewhere that Hakkai's entrance with the umbrellas was a deliberate echo of a hero pose from a famous martial arts movie, but I can remember nothing else about it right now. But if it's true it's so very funny.

They're still them, but they've changed how they think about themselves (and each other) to something better, or at least started that process of change.

It's actually a genre of martial arts movies, jidai geki (http://www.kungfucinema.com/categories/jidaigeki.htm) - I remember reading that too .

and re: emungere and your comments above - This is why I think that whenever Minekura wraps this up, it's not going to end the same way as the original story. For them, I think choosing to go back to heaven would be the "easy way out" at this point, and I just can't see that happening.

That makes a lot more sense of the parallel of the broken door.

And I totally think he does.

I'm taking that 'he totally does' as both answer to Hakkai enjoying killing and Gojyo stopping pretending to be Mr Tough Guy. *g*

Heh, both but mostly the former.

I love that sene so much.

And it proves something I've thought for a while - that Youkkai would not attack an ally.

I mean, Gojyo's lying on the floor bondaged. He's a sitting duck, and Youkkai does nto touch him. A predator, a wild thing, would go fo rthe easy target.

Youkkai knows his friends. He wouldn't hurt them. But he's still afraid he would, poor guy.

*hugs Youkkai*

It's true. He's protective and loyal, while still being extremely violent... like a dog protecting his pack.

I adore Burial Arc so damn much. And yes, I definitely think that the situation with Gojyo being kidnapped and Hakkai having to rescue him is an echo of what happened with Kanan, and that has always thrilled me. And I loved that Hakkai took off his limiters to fight the guys. I mean, I'm sure he could have done it without going full-on youkai, but he chose not to. That's very telling to me, and really reinforces the similarity of the situation with what happened to Kanan. And it definitely sends a strong message: if you screw with someone Hakkai cares about, he will fuck your shit up, even if he has to become a monster to do it. He cares that much.

And I think what happened there really showed exactly how much control Hakkai has over himself in youkai form. He seems to think he's not able to control himself and can't be trusted when he'd like that, but I think he's selling himself short, there. As someone else said, Gojyo was tied up and on the floor. He would have been an easy target, but Hakkai never went near him. In fact, Hakkai was fighting to protect him. Hm.

Mmm, I love his protectiveness - that loyalty and love is what saves him, I think, and possibly keeps him sane. I was thinking also the other night that his decision to go and live with Gojyo might have not just been for hmself, but because he knew that somehow Gojyo needed saving from his own life, and literally too, as it it turned out.

I wrote a fic about it last week -- though I don't think I'm on your flist. *g* But maybe it's one of those things that's going around the grapevine? *g*

I ... personally think Hakkai kinda likes it. IIRC (too lazy to actually crack it open, heh) he smiles when he goes to take his limiters off in the kami-sama arc. A faint smile, with his eyes shadowed, but... My personal take on the "I don't want to hurt people" is probably more like "I don't want to want to hurt people."

Heh. I bet Gojyo does stop, then...

Oh! And on an idle note, I play Hakkai in a RP (XD; ) and as detail for people who didn't know the canon and would want to know stuff before instigating storylines, I made an OOC post about Hakkai's limiters, how much he takes 'em off, what it happens, how much control he has -- dunno if you'll be interested, but it seemed to line up with some stuff you were asking to, so. *g*

Interesting post, thanks!

She's my Hakkai. Heh.

"I don't want to want to hurt people."

... and yet he does. That's it in a nutshell for me. Thinking about the inside of Hakkai's head really messes with my mind, sometimes.

That's exactly it. The Burial arc is FULL of little tidbits like that.

Hakkai: "You told the Sanbutsushin you would become my supervisor."
Sanzo: "That's because I thought it wouldn't be harmful if I let you loose."
Hakkai: "Oh? That's not always so."
Sanzo: "...There's no avoiding it if you say it yourself. Did something happen?"
Hakkai: [smile] "No, not really."

or... or, uh...

Hakkai: [kind of reluctant smile] "Please ... don't try to get me angry."
Gojyo: "Eh? What the hell are you guys doing?"
Hakkai: [bright] "Oh, nothing at all."

and of course the "You know, it's actually harder not to kill..."

I mean, like. This is an early!Hakkai, just after becoming youkai, who seems to me totally aware of his desire to harm people, and like, three years later? He's in tune with that, I think. He's not fighting it anymore. Which is... kinda scary.

Hakkai's mind is such a weird place to be. Ahahaha. Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

When re-reading this arc, I noticed something. Isn't this the first time Hakkai has removed his limiters since he got them--or at least the first time he taken them off in order to fight? Correct me if I am wrong, please.

But if it is the first time since he got youkai-ified, it is an even bigger statement about how far he is willing to go for Gojyo

'youkai-ified'

~ dies laughing ~

I love that word!

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