![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Some points on SRBL that I felt I had to reply to, but must do here now.
A, a suggestion from someone that the writers posting weren't interested in improving their writing.
Why aren't they? There's a suggestion here that because it's fanfic, it's not important to improve your standard of writing. Do people really want to read stories by a writer who doesn't care about the quality of their writing? I'm not for publicly humiliating people, but there is a difference between that and well-thought out constructive criticism, which can be received in the spirit in which it is given: as part of an adult exchange of views.
b, public criticism is unnecessary,damaging and upsetting.
Perhaps, but then we lose public debate about fanfic, which to me is potentially one of the great things about being on lists. After all, the writer has posted their fiction to a public list. Why then can't it be discussed in public? Personally I get upset by reading posts with nothing but gushing praise. I'm sure that's very good for the writer's ego, but how good is it for the quality of writing in the fandom?
I'm sorry I can't post my views about this to the list, as the listowner has asked for the debate to be moved. That really says a lot about people's fear of public discussion of their fanfic. I know that we all live in this net community and so have to be more careful about how we say things, but in life, if we write or say something in public, then we are accountable for that, and should be prepared for people to say 'I don't agree, but...'. I don't know why this should be different on lists.
A, a suggestion from someone that the writers posting weren't interested in improving their writing.
Why aren't they? There's a suggestion here that because it's fanfic, it's not important to improve your standard of writing. Do people really want to read stories by a writer who doesn't care about the quality of their writing? I'm not for publicly humiliating people, but there is a difference between that and well-thought out constructive criticism, which can be received in the spirit in which it is given: as part of an adult exchange of views.
b, public criticism is unnecessary,damaging and upsetting.
Perhaps, but then we lose public debate about fanfic, which to me is potentially one of the great things about being on lists. After all, the writer has posted their fiction to a public list. Why then can't it be discussed in public? Personally I get upset by reading posts with nothing but gushing praise. I'm sure that's very good for the writer's ego, but how good is it for the quality of writing in the fandom?
I'm sorry I can't post my views about this to the list, as the listowner has asked for the debate to be moved. That really says a lot about people's fear of public discussion of their fanfic. I know that we all live in this net community and so have to be more careful about how we say things, but in life, if we write or say something in public, then we are accountable for that, and should be prepared for people to say 'I don't agree, but...'. I don't know why this should be different on lists.
no subject
Am I being unfair in categorising a lot of the fic in that pairing as bad? Frankly, I don't think I am. The pairing has so much going for it, but all that seems to turn up on list is fiction of stomach-turning sweetness about the Marauders' Hogwarts days and stories where they get back together after 12 years and have mindblowing sex. It's gooey, but not good.
Personally I get upset by reading posts with nothing but gushing praise.
I no longer read any post starting Re: on that list. I did at the start, but there's never anything but praise in them, and it's boring. That means about 80% of the posts are now trashed unread.
no subject
I really do get frustrated by that list, because, as you say, it does get boring reading posts with nothing but unadulterated praise. I hardly read any posts there now either.
The pairing could be amazing, considering their characters and past, but hardly anyone's writing S/R that I want to read. Most fics on the list seem very samey and I wonder if it's because the list has created an entrenched fanon view, and it discourages other from posting stuff that strays from this?
I don't get Remus and Sirius being together at school, even though I have read a few excellent stories about that. Most of them are unspeakably syrupy, and really start straying into the 'any two blokes' category. They certainly concentrate more on hair descriptions, than on character descriptions. ( But then this is true of lots of bad slash fic). I'd agree with you that lots of fic in this pairing is bad. Maybe spelling and punctuation are okay, but depth of characterisation is usually lacking. I see them both as having rather extreme and difficult lives, but most stories don't acknowledge this and only concentrate on romance.
But it's really the attitude to criticism that gets me riled. It has been said that 'this is a fun list, and the writing's for fun.' Well that's fine, but what if it's not fun to read? Can't people be told without it having to break their hearts? I really do believe that proper critical discussion belongs in fanfic, partly because I get so depressed by the eager acceptance of utter dross that I see on places like ff.net, and partly because it's really a lot of fun to analyse slash.
My thoughts exactly...
It's not realistic, but it's easy to write.
Part of the reason I love Sirius/Remus is because of all of the pain. These are two people who are separated by time, death, and betrayal. I rarely see any mention of how Sirius feels about his friend allowing him to be locked up in Hell On Earth (capitalized). Wouldn't he perhaps be a little angry, even if he is glad to see Remus again? And Remus--he has obviously had a hard life. He arrives at Hogwarts in tattered robes. People often bandy about "werewolf prejudice" but they act like it's a secret. If it's a secret, why is someone as capable as Remus wearing rags?
You're right. These people have lived extreme and difficult lives, but that won't be acknowledged because most authors either prefer the lighthearted sap, or it's just too difficult to write. I know it would be much easier to follow the formula than to write a long story about how Remus wanted to be an auror and wasn't allowed--or how Sirius has to put his mind together after Azkaban--or how *gasp!* Remus has found someone else and Sirius has to learn to deal.
Oh, this is Snapdragon--a.ka. Adrienne DeFreniere--the one that started it. :)
I also went through the exact same debate on the YSML, after posting a rant ("The Top Ten Things I Hate About Fanfiction"). I had a section in that rant entitled "Take It Like a Man". It was all about C&C, and how some authors would throw hissy fits when presented with it. It prompted an immediate public outcry from authors who felt that giving C&C was a bad thing--for the same reasons that the people on the SBRL ML claimed. Luckily, that time around, I had a couple of very well-known yaoi authors step in and say that they liked C&C and were personally sick of just plain gushing replies. That pretty much ended it there.
Weighing in
-J