louiselux | Plagiarism and reviewing

Plagiarism and reviewing

I see the plagiarism argument has resurfaced on the old flist.

There's this idea that people who write fanfic are not only breaking the law but are somehow wasting their talent/time/precious souls to boot. I delight in using someone else's characters and derive vast amounts of entertainment from it, as long as the author doesn't mind. If they did mind, then I think I'd stop. Which brings me to a point - would you stop writing fanfic if the author asked you to stop? What would you consider as 'stopping'? Stopping distributing or posting it, or stopping writing altogether?

Another hoary old chestnut that nonetheless bothers me, because you really can't get away from it, is the idea that by attacking someone's fic you're attacking them as a person. I don't believe this is true, but I can see why some people feel it. It's hard receiving criticism, as hard as it is to give pain-free criticism. I think the same general rule applies to this as to any social interaction - practise common decency in reviews and LoCs. Personally, I try and be honest, think about the language I use, and think about my own motives.

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I don't think I'll stop writing fanfic if the author objected (I don't really control the bunnies), but I will probably stop posting it.

I think this is my basic view as well. I can't see any reason to stop writing, only to stop putting it in public places. I'd still show it to people, but on a smaller scale.

I got a splendid idea for a Profs fanstory once, that was based rather solidly on another story by Meg Lewtan, and so I wrote to her asking if I could do it. (If it had been "inspired by" or somesuch I would probably have plunged light-heartedly ahead and just credited her story in the end-notes, but it was very definitely "based on", and I wanted her informed consent before I did it.)

She wrote back (rather ill-temperedly) saying no, no, no, and how did you get this address anyway? (Mutual friend, who assumed Meg Lewtan wouldn't mind.)

So I wrote back rather sadly, deleting her address and her real name from my archives, and agreeing that I wouldn't write it. Which I didn't, and eventually the plotbunny stopped gnawing at me.

I guess that's my definite line: if there's a single identifiable creator, and the creator says no, you don't. Where there is no single identifiable creator (as with most TV shows/movies) or where the creator says "What fanfic? I see no fanfic with my blind eye!" it's okay so long as you are not profiting or attempting to profit by it.

(Assuming this Meg Lewtan is a fan, and her story fanfic) I think it's pretty damned hypocritical for a writer to object to someone writing fanfic of her fanfic.

I disagree. It was Meg Lewtan's story: she had a right to control what other people did with her story.

if there's a single identifiable creator, and the creator says no, you don't

I think that's fair enough. If I asked another fanfic author if I could base something quite definitely on their story, and they said no, I wouldn't do it. If an author said 'no fanfic', then I wouldn't. Thankfully, it's never happened to any fandom I've been interested in - although I can imagine how awful it must be for fans, in those cases.

would you stop writing fanfic if the author asked you to stop? What would you consider as 'stopping'? Stopping distributing or posting it, or stopping writing altogether?

I probably would stop distributing or posting, but if I want to write it for my own enjoyment (and possibly the enjoyment of a discreet few friends) that's none of the writer's business. For example, I have a couple of Dragonriders of Pern stories I started way back in the day, before I learned of Anne McCaffrey views. I may finish them someday, but if I do I won't post them on my website.

The thing is (and this may be an unpopular opinion), I feel like a writer attempting to control what fans think and do with the ideas/story/characters s/he gave them is disrespectful to *the fans* and when it happens, my tendency is to lose respect for the writer and drift away from the fandom.

the idea that by attacking someone's fic you're attacking them as a person. I don't believe this is true, but I can see why some people feel it.

It is awfully hard to accept that not everyone is going to like my stories. I think that can end up being a comfort though -- if someone who doesn't like my story publicly reviews/criticizes it they may have some valuable insight I can use as a writer, but a big part of it is probably going to be that they just didn't *like* it, and short of changing my entire writing style, there's nothing I can do about that. As for people who can't differentiate themselves from their stories, I don't know what the answer could be. But I don't think that fandom as a whole should refrain from discussing fic to humor the few who are upset by negative comments and/or take them personally.

Personally, I try and be honest, think about the language I use, and think about my own motives.

I like that -- particularly examining one's motives! In both RL and online, I try very hard to always treat people the way I myself want to be treated. I don't think I can do any better than that.

In both RL and online, I try very hard to always treat people the way I myself want to be treated.

I think this is the only way to go, and it's so depressing to see people attacking each other online, when you know that for the most part it's just because there's no chance of them meeting each other in RL.

I like that -- particularly examining one's motives!

Sometimes I need to step back and think about why I'm writing to someone and the way I'm writing it. Did they just get in the way of my bad temper that day? Am I not bothering to sweeten the pill because this is the tenth time I've seen something I don't like and now my dander's up?

The thing is (and this may be an unpopular opinion), I feel like a writer attempting to control what fans think and do with the ideas/story/characters s/he gave them is disrespectful to *the fans* and when it happens, my tendency is to lose respect for the writer and drift away from the fandom.

I think the best writers know this and realise that non-profit making fanfic is essentially harmless, depsite the copyright infringement. At the same time, if an author says no, then that's entirely within their right too, and I'd respect that decision. Having said that, I might still write things for my own private entertainment, but I wouldn't post them publicly.

I think the best writers know this and realise that non-profit making fanfic is essentially harmless, depsite the copyright infringement. At the same time, if an author says no, then that's entirely within their right too, and I'd respect that decision.

I was trying to think of how fannish activity could hurt a franchise and I just don't see how. I mean, even the very worst, most depraved, kiddie-rape NC-17 HP fanfic doesn't reflect badly on JKR or the HP franchise, you know? The only possible damage I can see is a situation in which the fanfic is notably superior to the original writing (*coughthesentinelcough*).

I agree with you that a writer has the right to say no, but good luck to them trying to enforce it. I think it's impossible to completely stamp out, and trying to ultimately harms the franchise, because it makes the writer look like a controlling bad guy and alienates fans. I have to admit feeling put off by writers who are anti-fanfic. As someone else said, fanfic is an intregal part of my fannish experience and I'm unlikely to feel comfortable in a fandom where TPTB are hostile to people like me.

And I think it's extremely hypocritical for fanfic writers, pro writers who have written fanfic in their past, or pro writers borrowing from works in the public domain to turn around and say they don't want their fans writing fanfic of their work. Sauce for the goose and all that.

And I think it's extremely hypocritical for fanfic writers, pro writers who have written fanfic in their past, or pro writers borrowing from works in the public domain to turn around and say they don't want their fans writing fanfic of their work.

Someone asked me if they could write a sequel to one of my fics once, to which I said, by all means, but would you mind waiting until I'd written my sequel first, to avoid confusion. In the end I never wrote the sequel, and neither did they because they were waiting for me. I've always felt guilty about that. But the point is, there is a point here, I promise, that it was the first time someone had offered to write fanfic of my fanfic, and it was incredibly flattering, never mind that I completely blew it in the end.

I'm not sure whether I would stop if an author didn't like fanfic. If I really, really, really wanted to write for the fandom? I'd probably contiue writing until I was directly told to stop. As for what defines stopping... to me, writing is a thing to be shared. While you can keep it for yourself if you don't want others to read it, spreading it around is half the reason to write.

As for the second one? Bollocks. Yes, writers can put their heart and soul into writing something, but attacking fic does not equal attacking the writer. If the person is defined by nothing more than what they put on paper, then they are a sad individual indeed.

As for what defines stopping... to me, writing is a thing to be shared.

If, say, Neil Gaiman (not that he ever would, bless him)said, 'no fanfic', then I'd have to respect that decision, because fair enough. He's the author. I might write things for myself and a small group of friends. Writing is for sharing - it's written to be read, but if what I wrote was only seen by me and few others, I'd be content with that.

heh, I'm not sure I'd stop writing fanfic if the author was displeased with the idea... and since, as it has already been mentioned, a great part of the joy is brought by sharing the writings, I'd still want to share them.
case in point: if I ever get a plot bunny for "Interview with a vampire", I'd write it, because I don't think I'd be harming anyone.
now, if the author asked me personally... I'd probably stick them friends-only or password-protected :D

yeah, criticising a fic can be done without being an attack on the person. it just has to be phrased veeery carefully ;-)

I think if the author asked me personally to stop then I wouldn't post them on the net at all. I'd feel too guilty and worried. If they're asking personally, there's more of a possiblity that they sue me personally too, if they found out:)

would you stop writing fanfic if the author asked you to stop?

I've never really given it much thought, mostly because I've never been in a fandom where fic is forbidden. If it was, I'd probably continue to write when I wanted to, but my interest would probably fade once all the forums were shut down, and I had no new fic to read.

There's this idea that people who write fanfic are not only breaking the law but are somehow wasting their talent/time/precious souls to boot.
Every time you write a fanfic, you lose a part of your soul. Duh, it's like acting or having your picture taken, and that's why fic writers can't be buried in consecrated ground.

Every time you write a fanfic, you lose a part of your soul. Duh, it's like acting or having your picture taken, and that's why fic writers can't be buried in consecrated ground.

Otherwise we shall Rise Again!!! Verily will we be cast out from the company of the pure and those who do not wot of fandom and its Unclean Practises.

Here via Daily Snitch

I would certainly not stop writing. I would also not stop posting it, but only for private groups, like f-locked on my LJ. What I would do is not put it up publicly like in an archive or on my website. That is all an author can and should demand from devoted readers of their work.

Would you stop writing fanfic if the author asked you to stop?

Hmmm. My innate pride says "Fuck that, I'll write whatever I damn well want," but I also disgustedly avoid fandoms wherein the authors persecute fanfic (ie. Anne Rice, Anne McCaffery). So it'd be a toss-up between continuing to write (just under locks and filters) or leaving the fandom entirely to prevent the asshole/bitch from making any more money off of me in the form of book sales, movie tickets, converting new fans, etc.

Sailed in from

daily_snitch, I think ultimately so far as posting fic goes-If the author said they hated it, I'd stop posting it. Now, that isn't to say I'd necessarily stop writing it. As a fan, writing fic is one way to work out all of those necessary what if's that pop up in my mind when reading someone's work. In some cases, those ideas could be put forth in essay form and in the case of someone who hated fic, I'd probably write more essays to share with other fans. But if they didn't want fic written I'd stop distributing it.

Someone above mentioned treat others as you would like to be treated. I've got to say that in many of the fandoms that I'm in there are fics that would make me, if I were the original author, really uneasy. It's difficult to see your characters doing things that you know they'd never actually do. So if it were me, and I said as an author that I didn't want fic written, I'd certainly want people to respect that-so I'd try to do the same for those authors.

Although this is kind of a moot point since none of the fandom's I'm involved in really have this problem!

The only reason I've ever been able to come up with for authors not to allow fanfic to be written about their work, is that they are afraid the 'copies' might be better than the 'originals'?

Surely no one is going to mistake a Lestat fic for one of her published books. And as long as no one is making profit from it...

If anything, fanfic feeds the flames of fans desires (sometimes for many, many years after the work would have ceased to have any 'real' meaning in society). If it keeps the fans motivated and liking your work...

Sorry if I'm incoherent, it's very early here :-)

As inelegant as this metaphor is, if I have to, say, throw up, no amount of requesting that I do not will cause me to clamp my jaws shut and refrain. Similarly, telling me not to write something will only make the need to get it on paper even more urgent. As others have said, it might affect my distribution of the story, but it'd still get written.

I'm wasting my time? Yes, probably. It's a hobby for me, and it keeps my interest until the next book or movie comes out.

If they did mind, I might think a little less of them for it, depending on their opinion. I can respect the ones who say "I don't want to see it," because they're just turning a blind eye so that there's no ridiculous issues of plagiarism. (I've always wondered about the ones who do have a look, because they then can't write anything about it.)

I would stop, though, at least publicly. Privately, I might still tinker with a few characters, just for my own amusement.

Sometimes people do confuse attacking the fic with attacking the person. Young writers with unfortunate Mary Sues (and who probably don't know any better) are attacked as people. I've seen it. That's no reason for taking the defensive every time, though.

People should be nice in their reviews. I don't mean that they should be loading the praise on in every sentence, but they should be truthful, if not honest. And people who recieve good criticism should take a step back, ignore it until they can cope with it, and then consider it properly.

As others have said, I wouldn't stop- if I've got to write, I'll write- but I'd either stop distributing entirely, or just do it among friends and acquaintances.

I think it's really stupid for an author/creator to put the kabosh on fanfic. In the end the creator is only hurting himself- both by making himself (or herself) look like a complete asshat ("MY toys! And I WON'T share!"), and also by potentially smothering the fans' interest in their work. I think they sometimes forget that, hey, without us? They wouldn't be successful. Sure, they'd get a book or two, but if books don't sell- boom. They're gone. We *make* them. The least they can let us do is write stories about their characters- we're not making money off any of it, and I've never heard of fanfic harming either the author's sales, nor the reputation of his/her characters. If, say, JKR did something like that, not one red cent of my money would ever go to HP again. Books can be read via library, movies can be seen through a friend. Vote with your dollars, etc..

Now, it *is* their property, and I think that if an author were to say, 'I really don't like my characters doing/being used for X (incest, bestiality, Harry wearing red shoes, whatever), could you please not write it,' I think that would be a reasonable request and would probably honour it. At least by not distributing. :)

I think if one of the authors (or other relevant copyright holder type people) in my (widely variant) fandoms said, "Stop writing fic, you crazy people!" what I would do is I would stop posting it and showing it around to my friends, but I think I would have to keep actually writing it, because plot bunnies don't just let go. However, I do think that after a period of time (no idea how long) I would probably become disinterested in the fic aspect of the fandom in question, and move on to another fandom's fic instead, while continuing to discuss the original fandom in great detail.

I think if an author asks you to stop posting fic, you sort of have to. Witness: Anne Rice.

It does seem a self destructve thing to do on the part of an author. I think Anne Rice lost a lot of respect over the way she treated fanfic, *kof* and also over the way she started producing utter crap.

Yes, I really can't imagine what she was thinking. I've always thought that if I ever got published, I would encourage fanfic - it's what introduced me to half my fandoms, after all, some of which I buy large amounts of merchandise and spend lots of money at the theaters *cough*Harry Potter*cough*.

I've never been able to get through any of Anne Rice's books; I tried Interview With the Vampire shortly after seeing the film (which I enjoyed), but I just couldn't get into it.

I think Interview with the Vampire is her best, at that. The Vampire Lestat was also rather good, but the others in the series (and there must be at least 4 more) quickly became very self indulgent.

One of the reasons seems to be that (I read this in an interview with her) she stopped allowing anyone to edit her work, as she thought her manuscripts were good enough as they stood. Wrong. It made them worse.

How completely ridiculous. She is the fifteen-year-old fangirls on ff.net who write atrocious Mary Sues and claim they don't need no steenking beta.

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Plagiarism and reviewing

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Pardon my language, but I feel strongly about this...

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